Having worked as a social worker and a counselor and a psychologist and a rehabilitation psychologist in this field like I tell you you're 100% correct. I have very little sympathy anymore because of my 30 year experience. It is a choice they make. It is also Multi factorial and it is also social Darwinism. Furthermore society and religion is so structured that it actually encourages homelessness and lack of responsibility for behavior because there is a whole industry toward people making a living taking care of the "homeless and the so-called mentally ill became mentally ill because they self induced it through irresponsible drug abuse and alcoholism." I don't believe alcoholism and drug abuse is it disease at all. It's a choice and they chose to become ill and become despicable homeless disgusting people living in the gutter. OK, so be it. Many are absolutely satisfied with living in the gutter also. You can give them everything, food, new clothes, job, money, medical care, and education and the second you turn your back, the right back in the gutter. I know this from 30 years experience. It's where they wanna be, so who am I to demand that we become like a communist country and put a gun to their head and force them to be "good people."
I also found out that many times when I help people, they resent it. Why? Because when you help people it further reinforces the idea that you are better than they are. Or you have more and people don't like other people having more. Who knew there was a whole area of reverse psychology that is never mentioned or talked about in the psychology of giving or helping others.
A whole new body of research needs to go into the so-called "poor," because we're doing it all wrong and we're actually reinforcing and creating for people with the current philosophy and welfare system coming back to us in the butt and slap us in the face and creating more poor people as a result.
I need a lot of help and I’d be grateful for it. I’m just not getting it. Right now I live in a home, in a few weeks I’m supposed to live on the street again. How does it make any sense at all to allow that to happen? I’m still a working member of society, once I live outside, the resources, energy and red tape involved in getting me back to normal is x 10. I’m doing all I can to find a solution. I can do better, I’m worth it. And after a lifetime of trauma it’s a miracle to be able to acknowledge that.
Wish you all the good luck you can get. Been through the shelters a few different times and just barely hanging on financially. For me, having excessively poor math skills all my life have limited my job opportunities big time and ever since my two autistic sons were born twenty years ago, keeping them stable and getting what they need has been a priority. There’s a lot of help in the system, but it is often very narrowly given. There were several options when I was going through for example to have customized job skills/college but any time I tried to get into any of them was told no, you have enough education since you have your bachelors. No further discussion of even a practical outlook. Eventually I learned how to work hotel front desk. At least I have something now to fall back on if my current status changes too abruptly. And you’re right about how much effort it takes to get back on your feet once you’ve gotten off of them.
Excellent point about this "issue" being turned into a mega revenue generator for all involved.
Much like any other gov adjacent issue - the problem is always perpetuated for profit.
there is no money in people being healthy, cured, affluent, educated or mentally well and moral.
Look at every problem we have in society today and someone who is connected to government is making money on them - either a direct paycheck or millions in grants or money laundering.
Judy, thank you for sharing your extensive experience and perspective. I find that it's clear that your years in social work and psychology have given you a deep and complex view of homelessness and mental health. The challenges you describe, such as the cycle of addiction and the difficulties of truly helping those in need, are multifaceted.
And your point about the unintended consequences of certain welfare systems and the complexities of human behavior highlights the need for a nuanced approach to these issues.
While I must admit that your insights are tough to read, they are indeed valuable for sparking deeper conversations about how society can more effectively support those in need.
This is HEART of the issue. I work with a Substance Abuse Recovery Program, and we have had successes. But for most, there is an entire industry greasing the wheels for their next Binge...
there is no 'Rock Bottom' for those in the System, because those who are addicted are a means of income for SS Lawyers. Lawyers find these people, set them up for SSI, and they get a monthly check for their disabling substance abuse disorder. Then at LEAST ten percent of each check goes to their Lawyers. They make money when their clients STAY addicted - and the pushers always know when the checks come in...
This System creates addiction and homelessness to line its own pockets- and their victims pay the price.
One of the shelters I went through back before Covid eventually figured out they had a number of social security recipients who stayed at the shelter simply to save money for their next binge. They eventually kicked them out, but it took them a long time. And yet, one of the field representatives of the shelter that I ran into while trying to figure out how to get on their wait list I’ll never forget because she looked higher than heck to me. Was just thankful when my turn finally came up that the staff was generally pleasant, sober, and didn’t steal. Which was why there was a waitlist for it; unlike the other main one in town. Had the bonus of having us do chores to keep things clean as well.
I respect your 30 years I also recognize that you didn’t actually sleep outside. And I hope never do. I’m trying to prevent my own homelessness right now. In your experience what would you suggest to someone on my position? I’ll do everything I can to stop it.
There is an awful lot of evidence that contradicts the idea of choice in addiction. Perhaps that first hit at age 12, but by adulthood it is not so easy. I do agree that the homeless industrial complex is getting a lot of people rich, and they need to keep that stream of homeless coming. I have worked as a delivery driver and had homeless industry professionals try to "enroll" me in their services, and on more than one occasion being offered cash on the spot if I would let them copy my license. They explained to me "that's how they get paid." Many churches run little businesses providing "services" that employ friends and family. It is wild. There is definitely some kind of unholy alliance between real estate developers and the homeless services industry. It is sickening.
That said, I still think we should have more free rehab spots and fewer prisons, just from a cost perspective.
I strongly doubt you were a social worker, 'Judy.' And I assure you, addiction is a disease, not a choice. And advocating for social Darwinism just makes you someone invested in the current caste system, and your fear of losing your spot on the food chain. You're just making excuses for your lack of empathy. Don't qualify generosity. Just give. It doesn't matter how shared resources are used by the needy, only that you care enough to share them.
My experience with the homeless is less than yours in terms of depth, but I did volunteer to serve meals at a homeless shelter for 15 years. This was at a ‘no drug/no alcohol’ shelter and the rule was strictly enforced. There were about 300 male residents aged 40-70 who all slept in one very large room on mats on the floor. They were not allowed to stay there during the day and were bused to daytime destinations of their choosing in the morning, returning by bus in the evening. Most did not have jobs but some did. The facility was designed to be transient not long term, and length of residency varied considerably. The conversations with the homeless around mealtime were not typically deep and tended to range around acceptable social topics, however on occasion that would change, and someone would open up about their situation or their past, usually in private. Out of the breadth of my 15 years experience I came to view homelessness as a complex and varied problem that was resistant(not conducive) to stereotyping. I met and talked to homeless men who had college degrees, who had worked for corporations, who were talented musicians, who were men of character(demonstrably), who had had a stereotypical family life at one time, a few with professional backgrounds. But all were genuinely homeless, many but not all by choice. There was often the theme of family estrangement or abandonment but some continued to have relationships with children or other family members. This revolving group of men is likely a different cohort than the group of 500 you encountered, possibly because of the screening process used by the catholic run facility I volunteered at. I felt that there were as many “stories” as there were men.
Damn Brien... Your observations about the varied reasons behind their situations, including family estrangement and past professional lives, underscore the multifaceted nature of this issue. I understand that each person’s journey is different, and your experience adds valuable insight into the broader conversation about homelessness--Thank you for your dedication and for sharing your nuanced view, Brien.
Can definitely relate. Met many people there who had achieved some degree of success in life at some point but for whom it all crumbled away in their hour of need. For myself, I felt a combination of self-motivation combined with family/friend support was vital. Saw too many struggle with no support; taking ten times as long and ten times as hard as it needed to be for those who didn’t give up. Saw several families come out to the shelter hunting for their loved one, pleading with them to come home and get help. Such a waste of opportunity. And then of course was the rest of the residents, mainly concerned about their next meal, smoke, or other round of opportunity of entertainment. But the more I learned about each of them, the more I could see how the ready made solutions would only help the most sober and motivated. The depths of help so many of them needed would have been far beyond financial resources available, even if they had wanted the help; which many did not. At any given time, I was one of probably a dozen of the regulars who was either working or consistently looking for work. By that I mean, anybody that offered anything remotely feasible. I do agree the system is broken and a lot of it is geared to keep their own jobs going. States vary widely of course too. One state, I was positive, had to answer the question; how many working people did they return to the local community each day? Another state, I was positive had to answer the question; how many people did they keep off the street each night? At this second type of shelter, I was only slightly surprised to learn of a handful of people who had actually lived there going on ten years. In those cases, each of the residents had turned into shelter volunteers.
Had a sort of similar job as a resident assistant at a program for homeless expectant mothers. The pattern that most stood out to me was lack of family support. They would be new Americans, or come from homes with serious addiction, or former foster kids. So these young adults would have no car, therefore no job, therefore a dependency on dudes who weren't actually dependable. It was good training for figuring out what my foster kids needed.
I gave a younger relative a place to stay but ended up having to kick him out. Decided he’d rather keep making trouble than use the opportunity to fix his life. Went way beyond unlikable but your point is well taken. As the song goes, everybody don’t want to be saved.
Sounds like you did the right thing on both accounts! You helped but you didn't enable. Hope your relative can reach rock bottom before too much damage is done
Wasn’t in that category when I went through the shelter system, but I surely had no family or friends willing to extend a hand. Despite being sober and usually working at least part time. It seemed to me the general feeling was my circumstances might be contagious. I still am friends and keep in contact with most of them but it really opened my eyes that support for me is going to be a matter of what I can do for myself alone.
Well, Mr. Latimore, simply an outstanding post. Thanks wholeheartedly for it. Somehow the world tends to ignore the obvious power of such simple truths. God bless.
I've gotten to know scores if not hundreds of homeless people through some volunteer work I do. I feel for them, and have tried to be helpful.
But my takeaway is that the "liberal" view of homelessness is wrong. The idea that ordinary, law-abiding, hardworking people are liable to become homeless simply due to a stroke of bad luck -- a medical bill, a layoff, a divorce, or a lousy landlord or a bad boss -- is tantalizing to certain social critics. But it is rarely true.
The best way to ward off homelessness is disarmingly simple: pursue bourgeois values. Be dependable, work hard, and don't succumb to addiction. Be an upstanding member of your community and try to follow the Golden Rule. Presuming you live in the United States, if you do those things, you are highly unlikely to ever become homeless.
This I think is the biggest factor. Ever since my divorce ten years ago, I have struggled but remain on the margins. If something too big comes up for me financially, I get swept back into it. I’ve been stable since 2022, but I see changes to my stability unavoidably coming up again in the next few years and at 60, starting to look at my own resources again; hopefully will be more stabilized by the time the unavoidable changes occur. But at no point has a relative or friend eagerly assessed my situation on their own and offered to help in any capacity. It’s just me.
I don’t think that’s all correct nowadays. I lived in a shelter with plenty of people who had no addiction are very nice people but on fixed income.
I personally have a job that doesn’t do sick pay. So when I broke my ribs on the job I didn’t get paid the ribs were in between 2 surgeries, also unpaid. And this was after having pay cut to half and hours cut.
I look to changing work and do have certain restrictions but nothing has happened yet.
Unless you’ve been in the situation where you’ve had to lay your head on the concrete as your home or spent time among the homeless cos you are one, I don’t think you can comment with much insight what is and isn’t realistic.
Hi, I'm sorry all that happened to you .I didn't mean to suggest scenarios like yours never happen, just that in my experience they are rare. (I've worked with a group that helps homeless Atlantans so I do have some familiarity.)
I’m about to be homeless. I have til August 29th which is when I go to court.
I became trapped in the gig worker cycle. The money was great at first. Since the pandemic died down so did the pay. By about half. But the workers doubled.
I also have a shitty landlord who’s not fixed my heating for 2 years. So I have that.
I’ve applied for emergency rent assistance, but I have no kids so they won’t help. I also had 2 surgeries and broke my ribs inbetween. I don’t get paid for that time off and can’t apply for disability. Gig economy doesn’t allow for that.
My car was totaled last year and it cost me 2’months of no work. I got an electric bike and it threw me face first onto the concrete. So I was definitely unable to work then. My face looked like I’d been beaten.
I looked for remote work but got nothing yet. I’ve started writing on LinkedIn. But I have to overcome mental hurdles I developed as a child. I lost my family in a house fire and there’s a few survivors but the distinction is palpable. Still to this day 35 years later.
We live in different countries now. I still have a chance. I just don’t know where to start. I’m going to call a low cost attorney now since they haven’t called me back. I have code enforcement coming next week so I can have my evidence ready for the judge.
My landlord is playing dirty. They’ve not followed any of the rules. But they’ll be able to get away with it.
I don’t want to live outside. I don’t want to live outside. I don’t want to live outside. I don’t want to live outside. I don’t want to live outside.
I’m so sorry. One of the things I would do if headed that way shortly would be to get a post office box. Which you can’t officially do once you’re homeless. That sometimes makes all the difference when you have a secure place for official mail. The cheapest prepaid phone you can get. Or government phone if they are still doing those. Making calls or going in person to all the local resources places you can while you still have a place. See if there is any local libraries with internet access. Make sure you have access toto your id and birth certificate if at all possible. Try to save enough money for at least a few bus rides. And check with your local welfare office the day you need officially become homeless. Prayers.
Thanks Maureen. This is great and actionable advice. Besides that I’m trying to sell as much as possible. More than anything I have my cat. And he, he’s everything. He’s my family when I had none, my companion, he’s healed me a lot. I’m more afraid someone will hurt him.
I found a free eviction attorney though and I hope they can help me make a dent. In this saga. I know this isn’t legal in anyway because of the reasons they stated. And they’ve been very crooked.
Phillippa, I am praying for you right now. I know all too well what it means to be in this situation. Thank God you have a few weeks to find a solution... do an inventory of what resources you do have, and of people you know. Then focus on what you CAN do - and use your resources do it. If you have no resources, contact a friend. If you have no friends, contact a church. The Food Pantries are the place to start. Find a person there, explain what is happening, and they will direct you to somone local who can help.
Some of the true stories I heard were absolutely incredibly unbelievable. But we’re completely true all the same. A couple that landed in this category for me were ladies that had husbands, boyfriends, and in one case, a sugar daddy as well.
A completely different take. The major problem facing society is the erosion of the sanctions that are imposed by the state especially in our urban areas. The areas of civic life where this erosion is most clearly seen is in crime and homelessness. Progressive prosecutors have raised the minimum value to prosecute shoplifting to $1000 in many cities with the obvious result of gangs of criminals taking full advantage of that ridiculous limit.
The ending of stop and frisk policing has resulted in a flood of black on black, black on Asian, and black on white violence including homicides. Anyone in an urban area who watches the nightly news knows this is true but no one mentions it.
The homeless, largely drug addicted and/or mentally ill are also allowed to degrade the quality of life of productive citizens because no one will say: "no, you can't camp anywhere you want", "no, you can't shoot up and leave your used needles lying around", "no, you can't shit in our streets". Someone has to start saying NO to both groups backed up by real action if we are to survive as a civilized society.
So where do they go? When I was homeless I made friends with store owners who let me use their bathrooms, I had a weed store allow me to take a quick shower before an interview a few minutes after I left they were raided. I did my upmost to help myself.
But homeless are still human, they need toilets, sleep, money. But it’s not made available. And sadly when you treat people like savages they become savages.
Philippa: I am sorry but like all of us it’s really their problem. How about repairing their relations with their family and friends for openers? How about stopping using drugs, getting a job and sharing rent with others until they can afford a place of their own probably in a cheaper city? The fact is as the Supreme Court has recently and correctly ruled they have no right to destroy some of our most beautiful cities. Enough
I always did my best to sleep inside all my homeless time. It was a great deal of effort to do so. My very first time homeless, the only money I ever saw was pennies on the street for over two months. Walked around the shelter neighborhood looking for work because shelter only ever offered bus fare a couple of rides per week at best. I never had addictions nor hung out with those that did. My parents isolated themselves while I was growing up and so as an adult they none of them wanted to have contact save for one uncle I called a few times a year. I have no siblings. Spent quite a while working while I was in the shelter system. Rapid rehousing tended to put people into expensive (but not fancy) apartments that could not be continued easily even if working when assistance ran out. Shelter staff had few options. The very rare helpful people at the various agencies around town were overwhelmed and the rest didn’t care. So although I don’t think encampments are the answer and certainly being addicted, drunk, violent, and trash-producing isn’t good either for the city or the person; I can’t say that my luck with trying to get family support went well. My parents when they were alive were always ready to help, despite our many difficulties getting along, but all of that time, my marriage was stable (was married 18 years).
By the way I do have a job, my family has been divided since my childhood when my family house burned down and my little brothers and step father were killed. I was 14 and had no support, developed PTSD and it’s been a crapshoot ever since. I don’t live in the same country now and if I did, well they never cared so far…
Forgot to add as far as roommate sharing. Managed to stave off the shelter for a summer doing so before the situation fell apart. Once in the system, the rapid rehousing I had access to strictly forbid roommates. I never got beyond rapid rehousing through the shelter systems long enough to work on roommates. I think a lot more success would have been had if they had allowed working shelter residents to officially be roommates.
Maureen: You clearly know much more about the reality of homelessness than I do. I only know that something must be done to change the current situation.
I’m really happy Maureen’s response has showin you the actual reality. It all sounds great but the reality is so different. I stayed in a shelter that routinely put me out for the night, like a dog, for raising issues about a guy who was hitting on all the women. The guy was allowed to stay though. The predator got his bed, I got a guy called Winston who shouted at me all night and wanted to pimp me out
The zoning Nazis in California and New York caused too much of this. There should be high rise apartments full of cheap studio apartments like in East Asia, yet such structures cannot get built. The creepy "affordable housing" scam of politically connected thugs forcing luxury buildings to have special $1200 to $2500 large apartments set aside for them, yet too expensive for poor folks is the worst.
We could solve all of our housing needs in a decade without spending a dime of public funds by simply allowing high rise, high-density construction in cities (not suburbs, keep those single family). Yet the corrupt in rich cities will not allow it. It is sick, yet no one calls them out because the journalists are the kind of connected people who get those "affordable" units no one else has access to.
Mr. Latimore, I get what you are saying. I lived in San Francisco for 31 years and dealt with many homeless on the streets on a daily basis. Some were "professional" homeless and others truly seemed mentally not there. Many were Vietnam veterans. I do, however, humbly recognize DESPAIR and the loss of the will to LIVE. I am intimately acquainted with despair and I have true compassion for those in that terrible state. This is why I cling to God and His Son. Not all of us are dynamos and hard-driving type A personalities. Somewhere, there needs to be a place for us... God has compassion when humans do not. Wendy
Exactly. It’s all good to be gung ho on taking responsibility but I was 14 when my brothers were killed. I was in the same house and heard the 8 year old dying but i couldn’t reach him.
That’s a really young age to bounce back. My family never supported each other. I tried. I wish. But my mum just started talking to me again after 10 years because. I dared speak about it.
I did finally find help. But it took decades. And at first was only available to vets. In the meantime, yeah, despair. In the meantime, suicidal tendencies cos I don’t think I deserved to be alive.
None of this is a ‘get yourself up and brush yourself off’ situation. And to think so would harm that person. But they don’t need to endure decades of hurt like I did and possibly you too. I’m in a position mentally where I could help someone now. But if was a journey. And life is a journey. We have to remember that.
Philippa, I grieve with you for what you endured. So much sadness on this earth, overwhelming at times. That is why I connect so deeply with Isaiah 61:1, that speaks of "binding up the brokenhearted." It seems sometimes that those who have not endured what someone called "beaten down by calamity", may not fully understand that it takes time and help and compassion to "get back up." It is not my place to hammer broken people into even more pieces. Our culture is sometimes just too mean. I pray you are finding healing and a focus for a ministry of sorts of your own, helping others because of what you yourself went through. That is my own walk with Christ. Bless you, Wendy
Some hard lessons to learn. And in todays society.... I'm glad I'm old!!
As a child my elders used to say: do you expect someone to come and do it for you? What are you waiting for?!!!!
Responsibility, cause and consequence, excuses, blame or entitlement don't work. Nor does self- delusion.. it should be taught in school I think sometimes.
Life is hard for everyone, it will take that village, helping each other and fight the true causes of societal problems.
Each one of us. Personally and communally.
Our government is not a good example ... bail out's amd immunity... LOL
I am friendly with several felons; two who did time for murder or accessory to.
All of them work. Most of them are pretty prosperous.
The thing is, you have to be willing to start over at the bottom. You need to rack up some “good time” as an employee. Yeah, you’re gonna be measured every day, but it’s not that hard. Do a good job; show up on time; be dependable.
None of the guys I know were arch criminals; they were guys who were prone to making stupid decisions and who got involved with dope or people who *were* arch criminals, or who committed crimes of passion (murder). None of them considered going back to the life that put them in the joint. None of them ever wanted to go back to the joint.
If you don’t have a support system, there is probably a reason, as you say. You need to earn one. Prove you are someone worth knowing first, then prove you’re a friend, then a friend worth investing the time and money helping.
I have run into plenty of crooks, too. They learned how to run games in prison. Smooth talkers who gain confidence and use it to take what they want. They were always *too friendly*…I can spot them a mile away and avoid them like the plague and so do employers.
Nobody ends up living in a cardboard box through bad luck; it takes dedication.
I have to say ‘if you don’t have a support system there is probably a reason’ is a harsh statement just like not all homeless people are drugs addicts, neither is this true.
My family endured a tragedy when I was young. Half the family, the young half, was killed in a house fire. Thats all we needed. I tried to bring it up be healthy, get help but it hasn’t helped. We are as dead as those who died in the flames.
Yes,the truth of homeless people is not what our media or churches tell us. In the last 30 years due to moving home + altered circumstances,not worse just different,I've had acquaintance with a number of “homeless” people,not all “homeless” as having them got a flat but it's a mindset and an attitude even when it's not a reality. The ones I knew,know,are at heart ok people,one is “high IQ” but not much use when you are permanently inebriated. But they are opportunists all and see themselves a cut above the plodders who work for a living. And they're all different not one undifferentiated block “the poor”.
Right! The happiest homeless I met were the ones who figured they had no stuff so they had no worries; beyond their next bottle or snort. A totally insulated bubble they lived in.
That's all probably true of the folks who end up sleeping on a mat in a shelter. However, the vast majority of the homeless are "invisible" homeless, otherwise known as couch surfing. That's a more diverse group.
I live in Seattle. As houses shrink and housing costs rise, those "invisible" homeless get shoved out into the streets.
I also have to wonder about the young man who got into an apartment in 3 weeks. In Seattle, it takes a minimum of a year to get an adequate credit score, and no one will rent to you without 3 months of paystubs. What you describe is what I remember from 30 years ago, but not what I am seeing on the streets right now in Seattle.
Seattle is certainly extreme at the moment, but I don't think it's unique.
Yes, I recall that was the case 30 years ago myself. But even then Seattle, which I was born and raised a couple of hours away from, wasn’t that easy. I recall going through roommate interviews that I didn’t get back in the ‘90’s, so Seattle had been tough for awhile. I’ve had to move away from Washington State around 30 plus years ago because it was becoming unaffordable for me then. If you ask me, housing was reasonable up there until people out of state started discovering it around the early ‘80’s. Live in Midwest today, although eventually hope to move closer to a coast eventually.
Seattle is one of those evil cities like New York or San Francisco where left-wing nuts ruined the housing market. In most of the US one can get a place with two months of rent. I have gotten multiple apartments in Chicago on a handshake and first month's rent plus deposit. One can rent a room on rent alone, but only a fresh-faced 18-year-old will get that, or a woman. A few years back I got a buddy of mine a room to rent for $400 per month, no deposit and the old lady cooks for him all the time. He cleans up the place in gratitude.
Of course, in Seattle there are probably some law that if anyone ever did that the tenant would have a right to live there forever with no rental increases, so no one ever dares. Terrible rental markets in places like San Francisco and New York are designed to be that way. Normal markets never suffer such insanity.
Having worked as a social worker and a counselor and a psychologist and a rehabilitation psychologist in this field like I tell you you're 100% correct. I have very little sympathy anymore because of my 30 year experience. It is a choice they make. It is also Multi factorial and it is also social Darwinism. Furthermore society and religion is so structured that it actually encourages homelessness and lack of responsibility for behavior because there is a whole industry toward people making a living taking care of the "homeless and the so-called mentally ill became mentally ill because they self induced it through irresponsible drug abuse and alcoholism." I don't believe alcoholism and drug abuse is it disease at all. It's a choice and they chose to become ill and become despicable homeless disgusting people living in the gutter. OK, so be it. Many are absolutely satisfied with living in the gutter also. You can give them everything, food, new clothes, job, money, medical care, and education and the second you turn your back, the right back in the gutter. I know this from 30 years experience. It's where they wanna be, so who am I to demand that we become like a communist country and put a gun to their head and force them to be "good people."
I also found out that many times when I help people, they resent it. Why? Because when you help people it further reinforces the idea that you are better than they are. Or you have more and people don't like other people having more. Who knew there was a whole area of reverse psychology that is never mentioned or talked about in the psychology of giving or helping others.
A whole new body of research needs to go into the so-called "poor," because we're doing it all wrong and we're actually reinforcing and creating for people with the current philosophy and welfare system coming back to us in the butt and slap us in the face and creating more poor people as a result.
Isn't that the worst. The people who need help the most tend to resist it the most.
I need a lot of help and I’d be grateful for it. I’m just not getting it. Right now I live in a home, in a few weeks I’m supposed to live on the street again. How does it make any sense at all to allow that to happen? I’m still a working member of society, once I live outside, the resources, energy and red tape involved in getting me back to normal is x 10. I’m doing all I can to find a solution. I can do better, I’m worth it. And after a lifetime of trauma it’s a miracle to be able to acknowledge that.
Wish you all the good luck you can get. Been through the shelters a few different times and just barely hanging on financially. For me, having excessively poor math skills all my life have limited my job opportunities big time and ever since my two autistic sons were born twenty years ago, keeping them stable and getting what they need has been a priority. There’s a lot of help in the system, but it is often very narrowly given. There were several options when I was going through for example to have customized job skills/college but any time I tried to get into any of them was told no, you have enough education since you have your bachelors. No further discussion of even a practical outlook. Eventually I learned how to work hotel front desk. At least I have something now to fall back on if my current status changes too abruptly. And you’re right about how much effort it takes to get back on your feet once you’ve gotten off of them.
Yes. It's horrible.
Excellent point about this "issue" being turned into a mega revenue generator for all involved.
Much like any other gov adjacent issue - the problem is always perpetuated for profit.
there is no money in people being healthy, cured, affluent, educated or mentally well and moral.
Look at every problem we have in society today and someone who is connected to government is making money on them - either a direct paycheck or millions in grants or money laundering.
Judy, thank you for sharing your extensive experience and perspective. I find that it's clear that your years in social work and psychology have given you a deep and complex view of homelessness and mental health. The challenges you describe, such as the cycle of addiction and the difficulties of truly helping those in need, are multifaceted.
And your point about the unintended consequences of certain welfare systems and the complexities of human behavior highlights the need for a nuanced approach to these issues.
While I must admit that your insights are tough to read, they are indeed valuable for sparking deeper conversations about how society can more effectively support those in need.
Thank you, Judy.
Facts. I was in the Counselling and Rehab field for 20 years.
Now its horrible... but I sometimes think that the best thing you can do for a person who wants help is take a whacking great fee from them.
This is HEART of the issue. I work with a Substance Abuse Recovery Program, and we have had successes. But for most, there is an entire industry greasing the wheels for their next Binge...
there is no 'Rock Bottom' for those in the System, because those who are addicted are a means of income for SS Lawyers. Lawyers find these people, set them up for SSI, and they get a monthly check for their disabling substance abuse disorder. Then at LEAST ten percent of each check goes to their Lawyers. They make money when their clients STAY addicted - and the pushers always know when the checks come in...
This System creates addiction and homelessness to line its own pockets- and their victims pay the price.
One of the shelters I went through back before Covid eventually figured out they had a number of social security recipients who stayed at the shelter simply to save money for their next binge. They eventually kicked them out, but it took them a long time. And yet, one of the field representatives of the shelter that I ran into while trying to figure out how to get on their wait list I’ll never forget because she looked higher than heck to me. Was just thankful when my turn finally came up that the staff was generally pleasant, sober, and didn’t steal. Which was why there was a waitlist for it; unlike the other main one in town. Had the bonus of having us do chores to keep things clean as well.
I respect your 30 years I also recognize that you didn’t actually sleep outside. And I hope never do. I’m trying to prevent my own homelessness right now. In your experience what would you suggest to someone on my position? I’ll do everything I can to stop it.
There is an awful lot of evidence that contradicts the idea of choice in addiction. Perhaps that first hit at age 12, but by adulthood it is not so easy. I do agree that the homeless industrial complex is getting a lot of people rich, and they need to keep that stream of homeless coming. I have worked as a delivery driver and had homeless industry professionals try to "enroll" me in their services, and on more than one occasion being offered cash on the spot if I would let them copy my license. They explained to me "that's how they get paid." Many churches run little businesses providing "services" that employ friends and family. It is wild. There is definitely some kind of unholy alliance between real estate developers and the homeless services industry. It is sickening.
That said, I still think we should have more free rehab spots and fewer prisons, just from a cost perspective.
Wow so sorry for your experience.
I strongly doubt you were a social worker, 'Judy.' And I assure you, addiction is a disease, not a choice. And advocating for social Darwinism just makes you someone invested in the current caste system, and your fear of losing your spot on the food chain. You're just making excuses for your lack of empathy. Don't qualify generosity. Just give. It doesn't matter how shared resources are used by the needy, only that you care enough to share them.
Ed,
My experience with the homeless is less than yours in terms of depth, but I did volunteer to serve meals at a homeless shelter for 15 years. This was at a ‘no drug/no alcohol’ shelter and the rule was strictly enforced. There were about 300 male residents aged 40-70 who all slept in one very large room on mats on the floor. They were not allowed to stay there during the day and were bused to daytime destinations of their choosing in the morning, returning by bus in the evening. Most did not have jobs but some did. The facility was designed to be transient not long term, and length of residency varied considerably. The conversations with the homeless around mealtime were not typically deep and tended to range around acceptable social topics, however on occasion that would change, and someone would open up about their situation or their past, usually in private. Out of the breadth of my 15 years experience I came to view homelessness as a complex and varied problem that was resistant(not conducive) to stereotyping. I met and talked to homeless men who had college degrees, who had worked for corporations, who were talented musicians, who were men of character(demonstrably), who had had a stereotypical family life at one time, a few with professional backgrounds. But all were genuinely homeless, many but not all by choice. There was often the theme of family estrangement or abandonment but some continued to have relationships with children or other family members. This revolving group of men is likely a different cohort than the group of 500 you encountered, possibly because of the screening process used by the catholic run facility I volunteered at. I felt that there were as many “stories” as there were men.
Damn Brien... Your observations about the varied reasons behind their situations, including family estrangement and past professional lives, underscore the multifaceted nature of this issue. I understand that each person’s journey is different, and your experience adds valuable insight into the broader conversation about homelessness--Thank you for your dedication and for sharing your nuanced view, Brien.
Can definitely relate. Met many people there who had achieved some degree of success in life at some point but for whom it all crumbled away in their hour of need. For myself, I felt a combination of self-motivation combined with family/friend support was vital. Saw too many struggle with no support; taking ten times as long and ten times as hard as it needed to be for those who didn’t give up. Saw several families come out to the shelter hunting for their loved one, pleading with them to come home and get help. Such a waste of opportunity. And then of course was the rest of the residents, mainly concerned about their next meal, smoke, or other round of opportunity of entertainment. But the more I learned about each of them, the more I could see how the ready made solutions would only help the most sober and motivated. The depths of help so many of them needed would have been far beyond financial resources available, even if they had wanted the help; which many did not. At any given time, I was one of probably a dozen of the regulars who was either working or consistently looking for work. By that I mean, anybody that offered anything remotely feasible. I do agree the system is broken and a lot of it is geared to keep their own jobs going. States vary widely of course too. One state, I was positive, had to answer the question; how many working people did they return to the local community each day? Another state, I was positive had to answer the question; how many people did they keep off the street each night? At this second type of shelter, I was only slightly surprised to learn of a handful of people who had actually lived there going on ten years. In those cases, each of the residents had turned into shelter volunteers.
Had a sort of similar job as a resident assistant at a program for homeless expectant mothers. The pattern that most stood out to me was lack of family support. They would be new Americans, or come from homes with serious addiction, or former foster kids. So these young adults would have no car, therefore no job, therefore a dependency on dudes who weren't actually dependable. It was good training for figuring out what my foster kids needed.
Yeah, that too.
Without family, a lot of people are in rough situations...and it's difficult to get out of a rough spot without a little help.
I gave a younger relative a place to stay but ended up having to kick him out. Decided he’d rather keep making trouble than use the opportunity to fix his life. Went way beyond unlikable but your point is well taken. As the song goes, everybody don’t want to be saved.
Sounds like you did the right thing on both accounts! You helped but you didn't enable. Hope your relative can reach rock bottom before too much damage is done
Wasn’t in that category when I went through the shelter system, but I surely had no family or friends willing to extend a hand. Despite being sober and usually working at least part time. It seemed to me the general feeling was my circumstances might be contagious. I still am friends and keep in contact with most of them but it really opened my eyes that support for me is going to be a matter of what I can do for myself alone.
The judgement is harsh. Very harsh.
Glad you shared this, few people seem to care, there is endless pain all around us....
Thanks for the like ! Have a new story out too, you might like that too?
Well, Mr. Latimore, simply an outstanding post. Thanks wholeheartedly for it. Somehow the world tends to ignore the obvious power of such simple truths. God bless.
I agree, Ed seeks truth and I love his reflections on it.
I've gotten to know scores if not hundreds of homeless people through some volunteer work I do. I feel for them, and have tried to be helpful.
But my takeaway is that the "liberal" view of homelessness is wrong. The idea that ordinary, law-abiding, hardworking people are liable to become homeless simply due to a stroke of bad luck -- a medical bill, a layoff, a divorce, or a lousy landlord or a bad boss -- is tantalizing to certain social critics. But it is rarely true.
The best way to ward off homelessness is disarmingly simple: pursue bourgeois values. Be dependable, work hard, and don't succumb to addiction. Be an upstanding member of your community and try to follow the Golden Rule. Presuming you live in the United States, if you do those things, you are highly unlikely to ever become homeless.
I imagine that anyone who had those goals would have a lot of goodwill from friends and neighbors if they did fall on hard times.
This I think is the biggest factor. Ever since my divorce ten years ago, I have struggled but remain on the margins. If something too big comes up for me financially, I get swept back into it. I’ve been stable since 2022, but I see changes to my stability unavoidably coming up again in the next few years and at 60, starting to look at my own resources again; hopefully will be more stabilized by the time the unavoidable changes occur. But at no point has a relative or friend eagerly assessed my situation on their own and offered to help in any capacity. It’s just me.
I don’t think that’s all correct nowadays. I lived in a shelter with plenty of people who had no addiction are very nice people but on fixed income.
I personally have a job that doesn’t do sick pay. So when I broke my ribs on the job I didn’t get paid the ribs were in between 2 surgeries, also unpaid. And this was after having pay cut to half and hours cut.
I look to changing work and do have certain restrictions but nothing has happened yet.
Unless you’ve been in the situation where you’ve had to lay your head on the concrete as your home or spent time among the homeless cos you are one, I don’t think you can comment with much insight what is and isn’t realistic.
Hi, I'm sorry all that happened to you .I didn't mean to suggest scenarios like yours never happen, just that in my experience they are rare. (I've worked with a group that helps homeless Atlantans so I do have some familiarity.)
Having been through it myself, I think you both make great points. Thanks to both of you.
I’m about to be homeless. I have til August 29th which is when I go to court.
I became trapped in the gig worker cycle. The money was great at first. Since the pandemic died down so did the pay. By about half. But the workers doubled.
I also have a shitty landlord who’s not fixed my heating for 2 years. So I have that.
I’ve applied for emergency rent assistance, but I have no kids so they won’t help. I also had 2 surgeries and broke my ribs inbetween. I don’t get paid for that time off and can’t apply for disability. Gig economy doesn’t allow for that.
My car was totaled last year and it cost me 2’months of no work. I got an electric bike and it threw me face first onto the concrete. So I was definitely unable to work then. My face looked like I’d been beaten.
I looked for remote work but got nothing yet. I’ve started writing on LinkedIn. But I have to overcome mental hurdles I developed as a child. I lost my family in a house fire and there’s a few survivors but the distinction is palpable. Still to this day 35 years later.
We live in different countries now. I still have a chance. I just don’t know where to start. I’m going to call a low cost attorney now since they haven’t called me back. I have code enforcement coming next week so I can have my evidence ready for the judge.
My landlord is playing dirty. They’ve not followed any of the rules. But they’ll be able to get away with it.
I don’t want to live outside. I don’t want to live outside. I don’t want to live outside. I don’t want to live outside. I don’t want to live outside.
I’m so sorry. One of the things I would do if headed that way shortly would be to get a post office box. Which you can’t officially do once you’re homeless. That sometimes makes all the difference when you have a secure place for official mail. The cheapest prepaid phone you can get. Or government phone if they are still doing those. Making calls or going in person to all the local resources places you can while you still have a place. See if there is any local libraries with internet access. Make sure you have access toto your id and birth certificate if at all possible. Try to save enough money for at least a few bus rides. And check with your local welfare office the day you need officially become homeless. Prayers.
These are excellent suggestions!!💖
Thanks Maureen. This is great and actionable advice. Besides that I’m trying to sell as much as possible. More than anything I have my cat. And he, he’s everything. He’s my family when I had none, my companion, he’s healed me a lot. I’m more afraid someone will hurt him.
I found a free eviction attorney though and I hope they can help me make a dent. In this saga. I know this isn’t legal in anyway because of the reasons they stated. And they’ve been very crooked.
Phillippa, I am praying for you right now. I know all too well what it means to be in this situation. Thank God you have a few weeks to find a solution... do an inventory of what resources you do have, and of people you know. Then focus on what you CAN do - and use your resources do it. If you have no resources, contact a friend. If you have no friends, contact a church. The Food Pantries are the place to start. Find a person there, explain what is happening, and they will direct you to somone local who can help.
This is such a good response. Thank you very very much.
I did find a solution of sorts. I found a free legal service that teaches you how to defend yourself in court.
I have to do a lot of legwork myself as I’ll represent myself but still they will be on hand if I get into trouble.
Excellent advice!
This was humbling to read. Thank you for sharing your understanding. One pay check away. That's so true.
After you've seen the nonsense that life can hand out to people, you're way more realistic and humble.
Some of the true stories I heard were absolutely incredibly unbelievable. But we’re completely true all the same. A couple that landed in this category for me were ladies that had husbands, boyfriends, and in one case, a sugar daddy as well.
A completely different take. The major problem facing society is the erosion of the sanctions that are imposed by the state especially in our urban areas. The areas of civic life where this erosion is most clearly seen is in crime and homelessness. Progressive prosecutors have raised the minimum value to prosecute shoplifting to $1000 in many cities with the obvious result of gangs of criminals taking full advantage of that ridiculous limit.
The ending of stop and frisk policing has resulted in a flood of black on black, black on Asian, and black on white violence including homicides. Anyone in an urban area who watches the nightly news knows this is true but no one mentions it.
The homeless, largely drug addicted and/or mentally ill are also allowed to degrade the quality of life of productive citizens because no one will say: "no, you can't camp anywhere you want", "no, you can't shoot up and leave your used needles lying around", "no, you can't shit in our streets". Someone has to start saying NO to both groups backed up by real action if we are to survive as a civilized society.
I agree with this take, generally, though I don't think it's related to my post.
It's a completely different issue
Reminds me so much of Portland, OR.
So where do they go? When I was homeless I made friends with store owners who let me use their bathrooms, I had a weed store allow me to take a quick shower before an interview a few minutes after I left they were raided. I did my upmost to help myself.
But homeless are still human, they need toilets, sleep, money. But it’s not made available. And sadly when you treat people like savages they become savages.
Philippa: I am sorry but like all of us it’s really their problem. How about repairing their relations with their family and friends for openers? How about stopping using drugs, getting a job and sharing rent with others until they can afford a place of their own probably in a cheaper city? The fact is as the Supreme Court has recently and correctly ruled they have no right to destroy some of our most beautiful cities. Enough
I always did my best to sleep inside all my homeless time. It was a great deal of effort to do so. My very first time homeless, the only money I ever saw was pennies on the street for over two months. Walked around the shelter neighborhood looking for work because shelter only ever offered bus fare a couple of rides per week at best. I never had addictions nor hung out with those that did. My parents isolated themselves while I was growing up and so as an adult they none of them wanted to have contact save for one uncle I called a few times a year. I have no siblings. Spent quite a while working while I was in the shelter system. Rapid rehousing tended to put people into expensive (but not fancy) apartments that could not be continued easily even if working when assistance ran out. Shelter staff had few options. The very rare helpful people at the various agencies around town were overwhelmed and the rest didn’t care. So although I don’t think encampments are the answer and certainly being addicted, drunk, violent, and trash-producing isn’t good either for the city or the person; I can’t say that my luck with trying to get family support went well. My parents when they were alive were always ready to help, despite our many difficulties getting along, but all of that time, my marriage was stable (was married 18 years).
By the way I do have a job, my family has been divided since my childhood when my family house burned down and my little brothers and step father were killed. I was 14 and had no support, developed PTSD and it’s been a crapshoot ever since. I don’t live in the same country now and if I did, well they never cared so far…
I am glad too, but there’s still a need to protect society as a whole from the depredations of homelessness. No clear answers.
Forgot to add as far as roommate sharing. Managed to stave off the shelter for a summer doing so before the situation fell apart. Once in the system, the rapid rehousing I had access to strictly forbid roommates. I never got beyond rapid rehousing through the shelter systems long enough to work on roommates. I think a lot more success would have been had if they had allowed working shelter residents to officially be roommates.
Maureen: You clearly know much more about the reality of homelessness than I do. I only know that something must be done to change the current situation.
I’m really happy Maureen’s response has showin you the actual reality. It all sounds great but the reality is so different. I stayed in a shelter that routinely put me out for the night, like a dog, for raising issues about a guy who was hitting on all the women. The guy was allowed to stay though. The predator got his bed, I got a guy called Winston who shouted at me all night and wanted to pimp me out
The zoning Nazis in California and New York caused too much of this. There should be high rise apartments full of cheap studio apartments like in East Asia, yet such structures cannot get built. The creepy "affordable housing" scam of politically connected thugs forcing luxury buildings to have special $1200 to $2500 large apartments set aside for them, yet too expensive for poor folks is the worst.
We could solve all of our housing needs in a decade without spending a dime of public funds by simply allowing high rise, high-density construction in cities (not suburbs, keep those single family). Yet the corrupt in rich cities will not allow it. It is sick, yet no one calls them out because the journalists are the kind of connected people who get those "affordable" units no one else has access to.
Philippa: A relevant NYT article that tends to support my position.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/13/us/homeless-camps-supreme-court-ruling.html?unlocked_article_code=1.7k0.8eic.BiOWhP-0BLtk&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb
This should be required reading in high school, college, and any government employment office.
Mr. Latimore, I get what you are saying. I lived in San Francisco for 31 years and dealt with many homeless on the streets on a daily basis. Some were "professional" homeless and others truly seemed mentally not there. Many were Vietnam veterans. I do, however, humbly recognize DESPAIR and the loss of the will to LIVE. I am intimately acquainted with despair and I have true compassion for those in that terrible state. This is why I cling to God and His Son. Not all of us are dynamos and hard-driving type A personalities. Somewhere, there needs to be a place for us... God has compassion when humans do not. Wendy
Completely agree, thank you. I can understand how the simple life can be so hard to achieve.
Exactly. It’s all good to be gung ho on taking responsibility but I was 14 when my brothers were killed. I was in the same house and heard the 8 year old dying but i couldn’t reach him.
That’s a really young age to bounce back. My family never supported each other. I tried. I wish. But my mum just started talking to me again after 10 years because. I dared speak about it.
I did finally find help. But it took decades. And at first was only available to vets. In the meantime, yeah, despair. In the meantime, suicidal tendencies cos I don’t think I deserved to be alive.
None of this is a ‘get yourself up and brush yourself off’ situation. And to think so would harm that person. But they don’t need to endure decades of hurt like I did and possibly you too. I’m in a position mentally where I could help someone now. But if was a journey. And life is a journey. We have to remember that.
Philippa, I grieve with you for what you endured. So much sadness on this earth, overwhelming at times. That is why I connect so deeply with Isaiah 61:1, that speaks of "binding up the brokenhearted." It seems sometimes that those who have not endured what someone called "beaten down by calamity", may not fully understand that it takes time and help and compassion to "get back up." It is not my place to hammer broken people into even more pieces. Our culture is sometimes just too mean. I pray you are finding healing and a focus for a ministry of sorts of your own, helping others because of what you yourself went through. That is my own walk with Christ. Bless you, Wendy
Exactly so.
So true!
Some hard lessons to learn. And in todays society.... I'm glad I'm old!!
As a child my elders used to say: do you expect someone to come and do it for you? What are you waiting for?!!!!
Responsibility, cause and consequence, excuses, blame or entitlement don't work. Nor does self- delusion.. it should be taught in school I think sometimes.
Life is hard for everyone, it will take that village, helping each other and fight the true causes of societal problems.
Each one of us. Personally and communally.
Our government is not a good example ... bail out's amd immunity... LOL
Enabling and cover ups don't work longterm..
Thank you!!
I am friendly with several felons; two who did time for murder or accessory to.
All of them work. Most of them are pretty prosperous.
The thing is, you have to be willing to start over at the bottom. You need to rack up some “good time” as an employee. Yeah, you’re gonna be measured every day, but it’s not that hard. Do a good job; show up on time; be dependable.
None of the guys I know were arch criminals; they were guys who were prone to making stupid decisions and who got involved with dope or people who *were* arch criminals, or who committed crimes of passion (murder). None of them considered going back to the life that put them in the joint. None of them ever wanted to go back to the joint.
If you don’t have a support system, there is probably a reason, as you say. You need to earn one. Prove you are someone worth knowing first, then prove you’re a friend, then a friend worth investing the time and money helping.
I have run into plenty of crooks, too. They learned how to run games in prison. Smooth talkers who gain confidence and use it to take what they want. They were always *too friendly*…I can spot them a mile away and avoid them like the plague and so do employers.
Nobody ends up living in a cardboard box through bad luck; it takes dedication.
I have to say ‘if you don’t have a support system there is probably a reason’ is a harsh statement just like not all homeless people are drugs addicts, neither is this true.
My family endured a tragedy when I was young. Half the family, the young half, was killed in a house fire. Thats all we needed. I tried to bring it up be healthy, get help but it hasn’t helped. We are as dead as those who died in the flames.
To my mind, that’s not a good reason.
Sorry to hear of your suffering. Hope things improve for you.
Since it happened I’ve done a lot of work on myself.
Found people who understand, who I can talk to. It’s been a lot of hit and miss, but that’s the journey of life.
I’m also in a position that I could help people who have endured tragedies.
I’ve been at the bottom so many times it felt like home for a while. Now it feels like torture.
But that’s a good thing. It means I’ve changed.
This is the love that dares to speak the truth. Offer the helping hand, knowing that some will actually take it...
Yes,the truth of homeless people is not what our media or churches tell us. In the last 30 years due to moving home + altered circumstances,not worse just different,I've had acquaintance with a number of “homeless” people,not all “homeless” as having them got a flat but it's a mindset and an attitude even when it's not a reality. The ones I knew,know,are at heart ok people,one is “high IQ” but not much use when you are permanently inebriated. But they are opportunists all and see themselves a cut above the plodders who work for a living. And they're all different not one undifferentiated block “the poor”.
Right! The happiest homeless I met were the ones who figured they had no stuff so they had no worries; beyond their next bottle or snort. A totally insulated bubble they lived in.
That's all probably true of the folks who end up sleeping on a mat in a shelter. However, the vast majority of the homeless are "invisible" homeless, otherwise known as couch surfing. That's a more diverse group.
I live in Seattle. As houses shrink and housing costs rise, those "invisible" homeless get shoved out into the streets.
I also have to wonder about the young man who got into an apartment in 3 weeks. In Seattle, it takes a minimum of a year to get an adequate credit score, and no one will rent to you without 3 months of paystubs. What you describe is what I remember from 30 years ago, but not what I am seeing on the streets right now in Seattle.
Seattle is certainly extreme at the moment, but I don't think it's unique.
Yes, I recall that was the case 30 years ago myself. But even then Seattle, which I was born and raised a couple of hours away from, wasn’t that easy. I recall going through roommate interviews that I didn’t get back in the ‘90’s, so Seattle had been tough for awhile. I’ve had to move away from Washington State around 30 plus years ago because it was becoming unaffordable for me then. If you ask me, housing was reasonable up there until people out of state started discovering it around the early ‘80’s. Live in Midwest today, although eventually hope to move closer to a coast eventually.
Agreed. It was rough 30 years ago, exponentially worse now.
Seattle is one of those evil cities like New York or San Francisco where left-wing nuts ruined the housing market. In most of the US one can get a place with two months of rent. I have gotten multiple apartments in Chicago on a handshake and first month's rent plus deposit. One can rent a room on rent alone, but only a fresh-faced 18-year-old will get that, or a woman. A few years back I got a buddy of mine a room to rent for $400 per month, no deposit and the old lady cooks for him all the time. He cleans up the place in gratitude.
Of course, in Seattle there are probably some law that if anyone ever did that the tenant would have a right to live there forever with no rental increases, so no one ever dares. Terrible rental markets in places like San Francisco and New York are designed to be that way. Normal markets never suffer such insanity.